On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:28:13 GMT, adita@adita.com (Myron Achtman) wrote:

>There are some agonizing bugs in Premiere 5.1a. I don't know how long
>ADOBE expects to take before they are fixed, but I'm not impressed.
[...rest deleted...]

Here is my pet-peeve P-5.1a bug-and-dislike list:

(BTW, the "Navigator" feature is VERY useful to me,
and is one of the two reasons I put up with the
P-5.1a bugs... [the other is P-5.1a's ability to
handle 12-bit sound without having to resample it
in another program {a lengthy process...!}].)

- When a cut is made in a picture or sound track with
a "rubber band", the left side *may* go from normal level
to zero, especially if the track has had the "cross fade"
tool used on it (and the "rubber band" does not show this
unless its level is changed using the shift key or the
right-end handle is moved and restored).

- When a cut is made in a sound track that has had an
overall (shift-key) level adjustment, especially if
the cross-fade tool is used, the visual and indicated
sound levels often do not agree - and a visual tilt may
appear in the "rubber band" though the level indicator
may indicate the same audio level at both ends (it is
useful to avoid overall clip level adjustments until
all other editing is done to avoid this problem).

- It is more difficult in P-5.1a to add a level point
on a rubber band without accidentally changing the
level at that point (this is not a problem in P-4.2).

- It is more difficult to read audio clipping levels
visually in P-5.1a than 4.2, even though the picture
is larger (the waveform is also represented off
center in P-5.1a...).

- The window priority is silly, unless one is using
a giant monitor or dual monitors (I have no use for
the left-side preview window, so I remove it, make
the right one 720x480 [shrinking as much useless
extra framing as possible], and place it on the left
[primary] monitor in a dual-17" Raptor system [with
a dual-monitor Spark system, it fits fine on a 15"
right-side monitor set at 800x600 resolution...]).
P-4.2 can be used comfortably on a single 17"
monitor (360x240 preview window), but P-5.1a
can't...

- Non-square pixel-handling in previews is only
a minor bother to me (graphics set up in 640x480
proportion work fine in Premiere...).

- The P-5.1a sometimes "forgets" the location of
preview files on opening. (assigning a specific
drive location for these files seems to cure this
problem, as does keeping the clip names short).

- P-5.1a randomly loses preview files (important
with Raptor timeline playback - I solve it by
dumping the preview file folder and re-rendering
everything in a project just before sending it
to tape (at a cost in time, though - and I don't
dare shut anything down until all copies have
been sent successfully to tape).

- If one repeatedly previews a portion of the
timeline (Raptor...), Premiere 5.1a may partially
repeat part of the rendering - it is then necessary
to wipe out the whole rendering of that part and
rerender it to see a correct preview.

- Using the "double-arrow" tool to move material
on the timeline causes the rendered parts to remain
behind, making the subsequent previews useless
(rerendering does not remove the old rendered
parts). It is necessary to move the rendered parts
(transitions, effects, filters, etc.) to remove the
previews before a good preview can be rendered.
(Would that P-51a held with similar tenacity onto
the previews one wants to keep !!! ;-)

- The useful "double-arrow" tool remains buried
on program start-up, and must be resurected
each time Premiere 5.1a is opened.

- Opening the timeline scale box sometimes
results in "8 minutes" being inadvertantly selected,
which is a real bother if sound tracks are open
(using the "Mac" method of sliding the mouse
instead of clicking to open the box solves this
problem).

- Some markers cannot be removed (a very minor
annoyance).

- Once a transition is in place, moving the end
of a clip or the edge of the transition makes
the other also move - I HATE "AUTO" FEATURES!!!

- Changing a rendered transition on a clip often
wipes out another transition rendering on the same
clip.

- In the filter dialogue box, the last image may not
correspond to the end of the clip.

- In the audio EQ filter, slider positions may not
correspond with the numerical values (which are
correct).

My Spark-P-4.2 system was bug-free and didn't
crash (unless I neglected to save after each
change...); my Raptor-P-5.1 system has several
advantages, but the bugs are all too evident
and annoying. We also have Video Action and
Media Studio Pro, but....... ;-)
(Though it is sometimes tempting to switch to
MSP, but multi-camera editing with it is no
fun.......! ;-)


On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:00:55 -0500, "Bryan England" wrote:

>Can anyone tell me if there is enough difference between Adobe premier 4.2
>and 5.1 to upgrade to 5.1?
>I realize that with any upgrade, you are getting a better package, but
>hopefully there is someone out there who has used both and can make an
>honest comparison if they felt the upgrade was just.

If my memory serves me well enough...:

- 4.2 is bug-free and completely stable, assuming
you save VERY often; 5.1 has many known bugs, but
it is also stable in a good set-up if you save the
project very often (every 1-4 or so changes - save
every change you don't want an "undo" for for safety).
I now know what to watch out for in 5.1, so the
irritating bugs are less a problem for me now...
Most common bugs:
- When a picture or sound "rubber band" has been
adjusted and the clip is then cut, the left side
level goes to "zero" even though the rubber band
does not show this (adjust the right end of the
rubber band a bit, then return it to where it
should be). Nice, though, is the showing
of the percent height of the rubber band when a
"shift key" overall level adjustment is made in
5.1.
- 5.1 tends to randomly "forget" preview files
(assigning a specific location for these [instead
of "same as project"] helps).
- Changes made to a clip result in previously
rendered previews being removed or corrupted
(I use previews as just that - and when I'm ready
to output the finished edit, I delete all the
files in the preview folder, put the work-area
bar over the area to be exported, and hit "enter"
to do a clean remake of all the preview files).
- Using the "double arrow" tool to move the
project on the timeline results in the preview
renderings being out of place (I delete all the
preview files before proceeding).
- Opening the timeline scale box sometimes results
in "8 minutes" being inadvertantly selected, which
is a real bother if sound tracks are open (using
the "Mac" method of sliding the mouse instead of
clicking to open the box solves this problem).
- There are a few other minor nit-picks with 5.1...
- 5.1 offers multiple levels of "undo".
- The preview window in 4.2 can predominate; in
5.1 it can't, meaning that you need either a tiny
window size, a giant monitor, or two monitors (the
last is tthe best solution, and it is not expensive
these days to add another video card and monitor
with Windows 98 - a 15" monitor set to 800x600
serves well for the preview window...).
- The dual preview window is enormous, and for me
a waste of space - I prefer to switch to a single
720x480 preview window (the edges can be reduced
to save space) and use timeline scrubbing to adjust
clip in/out points. Since I prefer to adjust clip
sound overlap/mixing on the timeline anyway (and
exact adjacent-clip cut-points and transitions),
this solution works better for me than having the
awkward double preview window.
- The timeline in 5.1 has a large amount of valuable
real-estate occupied on the left edge by little-used
stuff (the timeline left edge should be better layed
out or be compressable).
- The track order is annoying in 5.1, but you can
reset the numbering so that "Video 1B" corresponds
to "Audio 1B" instead of "Audio 2", etc., making
the diverging sound and audio track order easier
to work with.
- 5.1 can directly handle 12-bit sound; 4.2 makes
an irritating mess of it.
- 5.1 has far more sound control than 4.2 (one needs
less often to take sound out to another program for
modification).
- Control of the sound-level "rubber-bands" seemed
easier for me in 4.2; it is harder for me to add
an adjustment point in 5.1 without unintended
placement happening.
- Sound representation in 5.1 is better near the
single-frame level, making multi-track synching
easier.
- Some filters and effects seem better in 5.1, but
there is not a lot here...
- I dislike the auto-shifting of a transition
when a clip end is adjusted in 5.1 (and the
reverse, which is worse...)
- The 5.1 "Navigator" is wonderful for zipping
around the timeline quickly (no need to colapse
audio tracks) - and it shows "orphan"-parts
locations, useful for removing odd single-frames,
small transitions, etc. sometimes left-over in
editing and sometimes troublesome unless found
and removed (hard to find in 4.2).

All together, the choice depends on what gear you
are willing to add (a second monitor and video
card are almost essential with 5.1), how you prefer
to work, and if you use the VX-1000 (12-bit sound
only). For me, 5.1 has been a valuable update
(12-bit sound handling, more sound filters, and the
"Navigator" were the most useful additions - and
it is an excellent program for editing multi-camera
videos and for applying filters varying with time),
but if these (and "3-point editing", which I don't use)
aren't issues for you , 4.2 may serve you better
than 5.1.