On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:22:13 -0700, newvideo@amug.org (Bill Davis) wrote:

>In article <i3v1a.50130$vm2.26282@rwcrnsc54>, "David McCall"

><davidmccall@attbi.com> wrote:

>> "Dave Haynie" <dhaynie@jersey.net> wrote in message

>news:3e460113.42882792@news.jersey.net...

>> > On 8 Feb 2003 21:20:35 -0800, tzedekh1@hotmail.com (tzedekh) wrote:

 

>> > Are they now asking $3,500? So that would push it to $4,500 or so. You

>> > clearly reject the idea of a consumer HD camcorder, which is fine..

>> > don't buy one.

 

>> Bingo

>>

>> They will probably make a 3 chip HD camera for $3500, eventually.

>> David is right. Everybody wants to buy a pro camera, that will stomp

>> the $50,000 cameras that the serious pros actually use (SD price,

>> not HD), but the want it for $2500, $3000 tops. There are news folks

>SNIP

 

>Personally, I find all this "price" obsession annoying.

>

>My suspicion is that if anyone *does* achieve a sub $6000 full-featured HD

>camera all that's going to do is foist upon the world even MORE

>ill-conceived, poorly planned and poorly executed "digital films" which,

>if the stories I'm hearing are true, is the LAST thing we all need.

>

>Not long ago someone mentioned to me reading that at last years Sundance

>festival, there were 15,000 "films" submitted.

>

>Yes - FIFTEEN THOUSAND!

>

>I can't even CONCEIVE of how much effort was expended on making 14,750

>films that nobody except the relatives and close friends of the makers

>will likely ever see.

>

>And Yes, I KNOW that it's not my place to judge who should be making

>digial movies and who should not. It's a free country and all.

>

>BUT - and here's the crux of why I find this incessant quest for "low

>cost" production tools so difficult to justify -  no matter HOW costly or

>cheap the tools used to make a worthy work of visual art - that cost will

>PALE in comparison to the value of the TIME and EFFORT that people will

>expend in making it.

>

>In the olden days, young guys like Speilburg would work in 8mm, Super 8,

>or whatever ELSE was cheap and affordable in order to LEARN how to make

>movies. They didn't have any fantasy that their "student" work would

>actually GO ANYPLACE. Only that at each step in the learning process they

>could advance some - and AS they advanced their access to finer tools

>would advance right along with them.

>

>And if they proved themselves CAPABLE at each step along the way - they

>would eventually gain access to serious movie making tools.

>

>Today, it seems that (as with much else in our society) nobody honors the

>EFFORT it takes to get good at something. Everybody wants the CAMERA to do

>the work.

>

>Well, it simply WON'T.

>

>When some manufacturer does come out with that sub$6000 HD cam - I for one

>will save my first and loudest prayers for the poor Sundance judges.  Cuz

>if today it takes a panel of 10 Sundance judges 150 days at 10 films EACH

>a day to wade through the dreck and cull 250 "finalists" imagine what

>they'll face in a few years.

>

>Scary, very very scary!

>

>Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Too early in the morning, but I will try to be coherent...;-]

I just cannot agree with this point of view. I hate the

term "elitist", but it may well apply here. The implication

that only the high cost of pro-level gear saves us from

the deluge of poor video productions may be true, but

that high cost also directs the productions toward

particular types of output: those that require large crews

to produce and that can financially justify their existence

by (possibly) being popular enough to return enough

money to pay for these large productions. It closes out

those who may wish to work alone, or in small groups,

and produce not only "story" videos, but "art" videos,

"nature" videos, or whatever, in high enough quality to

be satisfying to the makers, if not a wide audience...

When I started out, I started out in 16mm, producing

fair-quality "experimental" films - but the financial

realities quickly closed this off, and I moved to still

photography. In still photography, top-quality gear

was and is (relatively) "dirt-cheap" compared with video

(until recently) and motion-film - and those who use

this gear produce vast quantities of materials, enjoying

the process, if not producing a high percentage of

high-quality output. The last part is not the point, though.

The process, and sometimes the results, are satisfying

to many. Recently in video, fairly high-quality gear has

appeared for video production that permits good-quality

output at (relatively) affordable prices, permitting some

of us (with short, non-commercial budgets) to get back

into motion-image-with-sound production. While it may

take a while for people to realize that there may be other

outlets for, and reasons-for-producing, videos than for

making "movie-lookalikes", that not all need to be done

in the "story" format, and that not all productions

ought to be thrown into the "Sundance pot" for judging,

I think it is more than a bit "elitist" to say that

gear should be high-cost to keep most of us from wasting

our time producing not very good videos in a particular

format and sending them to a particular competition.

I welcome high-quality, small, relatively-cheap HD

gear, and hope that when it finally becomes practical,

I can both afford and physically be able to use it

for producing motion-images of interest to *me*, at

satisfyingly high quality... (and I will not be

submitting the results to Sundance, so relax...! ;-).