On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:29:53 -0400, "Tom" <email@example.com> wrote:
>I've been a lurker on this group for years...and I've finally got an issue
>that I think should be discussed.
>Here's the problem:
>I'm an non-pro videographer..someone who loves to make videos for myself and
>friends. Personal stuff...vacations..events and so forth. I started with a
>RCA pro-8...went to a Sony Hi-8....to a Canon Ultura (great 1
>chipper...optical stabilization for $600 bucks)...a Sony trv-20 ( another
>nice machine)...and finally a vx2000.
>Now...my TV for viewing these gems was a 10 year old 32inch Sony. I decided
>to look into a new TV. Of course...I thought...lets go HDTV....perhaps even
>Plasma (EDTV or an HDTV version).
>SO I take my masterpieces and a camera to various local video stores.
>ARGHHH!! My goodness...have you guys seen what DV...even high quality DV
>looks like on a digital set? Yikes...all kinds of converter nasties. I tried
>every HDTV I could get my hands on...high end...calibrated front
>projectors...rear projectors....plasma (true HD versions).....they ALL make
>my pristine DV stuff look horrid. Sure 720p or 1080i looks great on these
>machines...but my 1000+ hours of legacy material is unviewable on these
>So I tried out some 36" flat screen SDTV's (Sony and Tohsiba)...ah...they
>SO...I bought a 36" flat screen Toshiba and a 24" flat screen Toshiba. My DV
>and legacy SVHS look 100% better than on my old set.
>Oh yes...I'm gonna pick up a HDTV soon...but my DV material will never
>darken the screen of one of these babies.
>My question is this: Should'nt we...who love videography...and who have
>significant Standard Definition stockpiles...be concerned about the slowly
>vanishing...high quality SDTV? I predict in 5 years...the only SDTV's you'll
>see will be smaller screen sizes. Digital versions clearly predominate in
>36"+ right now (at least at major retailers).
>I should be good for another decade...but geez...I'v spent 20 years shooting
>SD in a variety of formats...only to have the quality reduced by a factor of
>10 on an HDTV.
>I can forsee a market for quality SDTV's...sold by speciality houses....for
>people like me with years old SD material.
>480i just looks like trash on a digital set...at least when compared to a
>high quality SD set.
>Any comments? I believe I read someones comments a while back relating to
>how bad their DV tapes look on a HDTV.
Thanks for this interesting post - I was the
one you mentioned above who saw a friend's MOST
impressive HDTV front projection system (that looked
nothing short of truly amazing on HDTV material, and
MUCH better than anything I had seen in stores),
with very good display of wide-screen DVDs, soft
but acceptable display of SD broadcast material,
and HORRIBLE display of my SD-D25 Mini-DV material
(with "S"-cable direct-connection into the front
projector). What was amazing to me was that the
above was true, yet ALL of the better-looking
material had lower data-rates, and all but the
HDTV had lower resolution. I also have seen my
Mini-DV material displayed large on SD gear with
it looking good (and I'm well aware of the range
of "nasties" D25 is capable of showing - see:
I was willing to call this a conversion problem
with this particular projector (or with
resolution-halving projectors in general...),
but your post (and John Dyson's, above) made me
wonder again about this issue...
I can clearly state (demonstrating with my own video equipment), that DV50
type formats (50mbps versions of DV) look alot better on HDTV than DV25. It
is possible to partially clean-up the DV25 picture, but the damage done by
the compression scheme is impossible to totally remove.
Even with OTA NTSC, if you look carefully, and have a fairly clean signal,
you can see the DV25 artifacts pass through. BetaSP tends to have a soft
look also, but it is much easier to see the effects of BetaSP on SDTV
DV25 is still a really nice format for home use.